Interview with Alexander Alvaro: the limit of tolerance

mehriran.de -- In the conflict over its nuclear program, Iran is playing "on time" as - Federal Republic Foreign Minister Westerwelle expressed it. In order to increase pressure on the Iranian government, the EU foreign ministers jointly decided on a new package of sanctions in mid-October – it is aimed a.o. against the energy and financial sector. At the same time, Europeans cancelled at the last minute the visit of the Delegation of the European Parliament to Tehran, because the Iranian government denied the visitors the contact with imprisoned human rights activists. Alexander Alvaro, Vice President of the European Parliament and member of the Delegation for Relations with Iran, talks about the present tensions and prospects. The interview was conducted by Oliver Cech for mehriran.de

Mehriran.de: What impact have the tightened sanctions of the Europeans against Iran on the population, and in particular on the repeatedly deplored violations of human rights in Iran?

Alvaro: It would be desirable if we could detect such effects. The sanctions do indeed lead to restrictions for the population living there, which is not in our interest. But the regime in Tehran has so far shown to be unimpressed. And we cannot see any improvement in the situation in terms of human rights, because so far there are no visible concessions.

Mehriran.de: Then you plead to search for other means?

Alvaro: No, I think the sanctions are quite a useful tool. Sooner or later, it will of course cause difficulties for the government. As an element of political strategy, sanctions are certainly useful - if you conduct parallel talks on a diplomatic level as well.

Mehriran.de: On a diplomatic level, the conflict recently sharpened considerably. The European Parliament delegation cancelled a long-planned visit to Tehran at the last minute, because the regime refused the group to get in contact with Nasrin Sotoudeh and Jafar Panahi, the winners of this year's Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought. Both are jailed for political reasons and isolated from the public…

Alvaro: I called at an early stage for the cancellation of this trip in order not to give the regime the opportunity to use such a delegation as a propaganda platform for themselves. That would be wrong. But to cease entirely the diplomatic contacts, is also not a viable option, in my eyes. When both parties withdraw and refuse to talk the situation would only escalate. At the same time, we also must make it very clear to the regime where the limit of tolerance is reached and where it is exceeded. A delicate task. I tell you quite frankly, if I had the wisdom to which conclusion to reach, I would have articulated it already. Anyway, it is important for us to proceed cautiously. One cannot work with a coarse wedge.

Mehiran.de: Last spring you hosted the organization of a hearing in the European Parliament. Iranian opposition groups, journalists and human rights groups such as the International Organization to Preserve Human Rights in Iran had such a platform to exchange ideas and to allow them their concerns to be heard in Europe. What was for you the results of these hearings?

Alvaro: In particular, what was noteworthy to me was that the different groups, independent of the goal they are pursuing in the long term, from which social, but also religious direction they came, they were all united in the fact that a free life in Iran, a political activity in Iran as it stands today, is not possible. On all sites, the interest was felt to build a free society that tolerates different opinions and minorities, as we know in our societies here. I realized, at that first meeting, in such a framework, that there really is an overarching opposition, whose aim is to make Iran democratic for the future. It was a very positive experience, because there was no exhausting disputes in the nitty-gritty, but a collective reflection of how people can live in better conditions in this country in the long term.

Mehriran.de: By these hearings you have got an overview. Which groups are in your eyes those that should get special attention from the European ?

Alvaro: No one should be excluded there. My work is aiming to address political parties, as well as religious groups, and of course human rights groups. I would like to make it possible to have an exchange with each other. I don’t believe that it is up to us to tell in detail how such a society must be reorganized. But it is our job to ensure that the principles of democratic exchange are met. I therefore believe that it is necessary that religious groups which are no doubt part of the Iranian society, as well as NGOs (non governmental organizations), are involved in this process. We have seen in many other cases, what happens if we exclude groups from such a reform process. Then anger and resistance arises. So I think it is so important to include all these groups in the reform process.

Mehriran.de: From a Western perspective, often it seems to be the Islam that prevents the orientation towards democracy and human rights standards. So what is the role of religion in the intended reforms?

Alvaro: I mean that Islam basically can play a positive role. It depends, of course, the same as with Christianity, how it is interpreted. We find people in Iran and throughout the Middle East who present a restrictive and reactionary interpretation of the Koran. Likewise, we find persons who interpret the Koran in a contemporary way so that it is applicable to the present day. If we pursue this further, religion can play a positive factor in a free society. I don’t think that we can make religion therefore responsible for the situation we currently find in Iran. However, it is in particular the Council of Guardians, that makes a huge restrictive interpretation. So I mean, if we succeed to involve a moderate, modern Islam in the reform movement, then much is gained. But again: it's not our job to explain a society from the outside, how she has to live, according to which rules - as long as these rules are shaped by universal human rights and democracy.

Mehriran.de: Should the Europeans therefore try to identify those religious groups in Iran who pursue humanistic ideals - and then give directed support to these groups?

Alvaro: This is actually a part of the process that we are working on. We are however dependent on experts who are really familiar with this issue. Because even if I would consider myself to have an understanding of the region, to have an overview of the different groups, it is often difficult for us to understand which local groups pursue which goals, and what kind of alliances exist there. It is important to involve groups in Iran - but equally important to carefully clarify who are the ones to whom we could talk. This is a goal that our parliamentary group for relations with Iran also is pursuing. We are however in the difficult position that we currently cannot even travel in the country and hold free conversations; and when a delegation can travel to Tehran, as recently was planned, we must ensure that the regime does not immediately misuse this visit for propaganda purposes. It is for us currently really difficult to recognize from a distance, especially in a country as large as Iran who from religious site would be a point of mutual interest for us, with whom we can also talk about the future of the country.

Mehriran.de: This seems to favour the continuation or repetition of something like the hearing of last spring - to give the exile forces a platform to present themselves so that one could gain a more accurate assessment of the groups and to get in touch with them?

Alvaro: I think so, yes. Following the positive response of the first meeting, we agreed with the International Organization to Preserve Human Rights in Iran, that we want to continue the debate in Germany. We want to collaborate with some universities, to give the subject of the future of Iran also a platform there. And of course it would be useful to repeat a hearing in Brussels in the coming year, in order to continue this process. Since such reform of a society can only be tackled in the long run, long term discussions are necessary - conversations in which one gets gradually to better assessment and understanding can arise, also the groups amongst themselves. Otherwise, it remains unclear who is speaking for whom. It is known that the Iranian regime has a long arm, and so it is understandable that many groups in exile react reserved and are waiting to express themselves openly. We need to build trust on all sides.

By: Oliver Cech for mehriran.de 14.12.2012

Photo: Alexander Alvaro during an interview with IOPHRI in march 2012